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Why is "Indestructible" not an ability or characteristic?

asked 2013-03-01 08:24:16 -0500

GendoIkari gravatar image GendoIkari
3014 ● 1 ● 5 ● 23

The comprehensive rules state:

700.4a Although the text “[This permanent] is indestructible” is an ability, actually being indestructible is neither an ability nor a characteristic. It’s just something that’s true about a permanent.

Just curious, is there a reason for this? Hexproof, Flying, Shroud, are all abilities, right? They seem very similar to indestructible in terms of the type of effect they have on the creature and the game.

Would any card interactions be different if indestructible were an ability? (I assume in that case instead of [This permanent] is indestructible", cards would say "[This permanent] has indestructible."

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answered 2013-03-01 11:44:14 -0500

awall gravatar image awall
3494 ● 4 ● 17

updated 2013-03-01 11:44:58 -0500

The quality of being indestructible isn't itself an ability or characteristic in the same way that the following are neither abilities nor characteristics:

  • The quality of being unable to be targeted by spells or abilities.
  • The quality of being unable to be blocked except by creatures with flying or reach.
  • The quality of being unaffected by summoning sickness.

However, there do exist abilities that confer each of these qualities:

  • The ability "Shroud" confers the first of the above qualities.
  • The ability "Flying" confers the second of them
  • The ability "Haste" confers the third one.
  • In the same way, the ability, "This creature is indestructible," confers the quality of being indestructible.

Unlike the other three, the ability that confers indestructibility it is not a keyworded ability. Perhaps somewhere down the line they will come up with a new keyword ("Invincibility") whose meaning is "This permanent is indestructible." In this case, they would be able to have an effect that reads, "Target creature gains Invincibility until end of turn." This would grant the ability Invincibility, which in turn confers the quality of being indestructible.

As another example, consider the card [[[Muraganda Petroglyphs]]]. While this in in play, let's say that I cast the following spells:

  • "Target creature gains flying until end of turn." (Targeting creature A)
  • "Target creature can't be blocked this turn except by creatures with flying or reach." (Targeting creature B)
  • "Target creature gains 'This creature is indestructible' until end of turn." (Or, if you prefer to use the hypothetical keyword, "Target creature gains Invincibility until end of turn.") (Targeting creature C).
  • "Target creature is indestructible until end of turn." (Targeting creature D).

At this point, creatures A and B both have the quality that they can't be blocked except by creatures with flying or reach. Creatures C and D both have the quality that they are indestructible. Creatures B and D still get the bonus from the Pteroglyphs (assuming they didn't have any abilities before) because they have only gained qualities, not abilities. Whereas creatures A and C have both gained abilities, so they no longer gain any bonus from the Pteroglyphs.

Make sense?

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Very thorough answer! I guess the only unknown is why they created "flying" as an ability, but not "invincibility". Then again, I suppose there was a time that there was no "Lifelink" ability, just words that described that same quality. All part of the development process, I suppose.

GendoIkari ( 2013-03-01 14:07:02 -0500 )edit

Because flying cannot function without a keyword; without the keyword, it's impossible to properly define the set of creatures that's supposed to be able to block. Try to write flying without using the word 'flying'. Not easy.

GrifterMage ( 2013-03-01 15:09:54 -0500 )edit

@Gendolkari: It's a little bit of a gray area. Even today when they have keywords for things, they don't always use them. Consider [[[Guard Duty]]] and [[[Forced Worship]]]; one of them grants a keyworded ability to the creature that sets a quality, while the other just sets that quality.

awall ( 2013-03-02 16:14:53 -0500 )edit

@awall there is a functional difference though, some cards care about other things having defender..."can only be blocked by creatures with defender" or "for each creature with defender you control" and some things can "lose defender" but would still be unable to attack through forced worship.

GojanT ( 2013-03-03 16:41:44 -0500 )edit

So just to confirm, if someone plays [[[Humility]]], then a creature with Guard Duty can attack. but a creature with Forced Worship cannot?

GendoIkari ( 2013-03-04 07:56:58 -0500 )edit
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answered 2013-03-01 11:20:32 -0500

Shushoto gravatar image Shushoto
16138 ● 3 ● 32 ● 61

The distinction is that an object gaining indestructibility remains the same object. For example, a copy effect will not see the change and can't pass it on to a [[[Clone]]]. Indestructibility, unblockablility and the like only serve as shortcuts for stating that the appropriate action cannot occur.

101.2. When a rule or effect allows or directs something to happen, and another effect states that it can't happen, the "can't" effect takes precedence. Example: If one effect reads "You may play an additional land this turn" and another reads "You can't play land cards this turn," the effect that precludes you from playing lands wins.

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Gaining an ability wouldn't change the copiable values, so it has no effect on Clone anyway.

SadisticMystic ( 2013-03-01 13:04:33 -0500 )edit

@SadisticMystic It's not the added ability that would be copied but the added characteristic. It's the type of misconception that would have attributes modify objects that I'm trying to expose.

Shushoto ( 2013-03-04 11:52:14 -0500 )edit

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Asked: 2013-03-01 08:24:16 -0500

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Last updated: Mar 01

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